posted February 14, 2003 01:13 PM            

I say that's bullshit. And it has absolutely nothing to do with a female singer-you inserted that. There are plenty of bad male-fronted bands as well.

And, I can feel plenty justified in poking fun at an entire genre that classifies itself as "Christian" when the bulk of what I've seen/heard/read about is sillier than Stryper, not to mention unlistenable.

posted February 14, 2003 01:15 PM            

Edit: you said you didn't like Christian music being lumped as a genre. Then you dismissed it as a worthless genre.

Should we not listen to any pop music because a lot of what we've seen/read/heard is silly. No. We should just not like the music that is silly. Unless we like silly.

It's got nothing to do with my say-so. It has everything to do with the fact that cute pop songs are going to get tiresome to some people. That doesn't mean everything on the album is a cute pop song.

It's the industry (owned for the most part by the media giants) itself that creates the concept of "Christian" music. Thus the notion of "indie Christian" which likely makes Pedro cringe. The artists needn't be thrown out with the holy bathwater of the industry, not if they're good.

I never asked anyone to check these artists out. Whatever, I couldn't care less. I'm pointing out that they aren't all the same.

posted February 14, 2003 01:28 PM            

i think that Christian music might be defined as music centered on God and Jesus Christ. lots of times, this intent and purpose may only exist in mind of the composer/musician -- particularly when it comes to instrumental music.

at this, Christian bands don't always play Christian music. non-Christian bands can play Christian songs. stupid music can spawn from Christian bands just as much as it does from ween songs ("marilyn manson ate my girlfriend" et al.) this confusion meets that load of crap that some ccm artists output. scripture may be distorted and it becomes a pissing contest of seeing how many times you can throw the name "Jesus" into a song (which is a shame, in my opinion, as it lessens the meaning of the name if you're just throwing it in just to make syllable ends meet...). Christian music marketing can be just as dirty as any other, losing their point of reference to pretty faces, quantity-not-quality sales, and poptart pinups.

if you give up on Christian music because you have no desire to hear or be challenged the message, that's one thing. but automatically dismissing bands as lesser musicians because they center around Christ is too much.

Christian music buyers can be just as non-discerning as a rave kid: buy anything with the genre label on it. people may feel limited in their choices for Christian music cuz it seems you have to like dc talk, stryper, cross movement or the newsboys (all of which make me cringe with lesser delight). there is, as listed and mentioned, a lot more to God-centered music than initially thought. folks from bruce cockburn to the elms, aden to brian keita, pedro, julianna theory, derek webb, etc... just as folks like ben harper, u2 and gordon gano can make Christian music. but we know them better for making rock music (though lots of people will resent harper for doing so. )

posted February 14, 2003 01:32 PM            

Dismissing the music because you find the message offensive or irritating is perfectly fine.

posted February 14, 2003 03:13 PM            

Keep posting, all of you - please, especially any of you who might consider yourselves fundamentalists (whatever that means - hey, discuss that too!). Really, I've been learning a lot, and the folks in the office have been loving it.

posted February 14, 2003 03:29 PM            

quote:

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John, I want to say, "God Bless You Brother." But instead, I'll just say you haven't got a fucking clue what you're talking about.

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Oh, I bow to your infinitely greater knowledge on this subject and say whatever.

posted February 14, 2003 03:37 PM            

EDIT: what fspoon said

posted February 14, 2003 04:03 PM            

artists a la eminem confuse this issue just by blurring persuasion with expression. there are folks who write songs just to tell a story. some Christian artists write songs to persuade a case for Christ (no pun intended) and some just write about God's presence or beauty in general (bebo norman "the hammer holds," jackopierce). some even write out of their frustrations with God. (switchfoot's "let that be enough," caedmon's call "what you want" "truth"). And some artists write songs, like anybody else, to tell a story (which is a good characteristic of pedro's music).

i think also back on mayhole's comment on lumping Christian music and worship music together and i'd have to disagree. worship music, as expressed by its title, has the intention of worshipping God, while not all Christian music is intended encouragement for worship. worship music may be a form of Christian music, but that leaves no excuse for churches to place Creed songs in the lineup -- nor for music listeners to expect worship lingo and persuasions of rich mullins or matt redman in every Christian music listening experience.

sure, hymns and gospel music extends a longer shadow on the definition of Christian expression, but they are songs presented with an explicit purpose as a medium for corporate or individual worship -- if one may define worship as an expression of honor and love.

by saying that

quote:

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I think when any band puts the message before the medium, they are selling themselves short.

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bob dylan could have said a lot more than he did if he didn't have to make things rhyme, but i'm still glad he did -- and i still like the things he said. if his message trumps his medium, or his medium trumps his message, which makes him all the worse-off? when good music is made, perhaps its more important to concentrate on what makes it good, rather than sells them short.

EDIT: end with a question? weak.

posted February 14, 2003 08:39 PM            

"creep" was and is still a great song and so is "loser" by Beck.

"Kiss me" sucked ass as well as their (sixpence) obvious cash in attempt of covering the La's "there she goes" hot on the heals of the success of their previous single.

posted February 14, 2003 10:22 PM            

Yes, "Loser" and "Creep" are also great songs. Those probably weren't the best examples but compared to those respective artists' body of work, those songs are hardly definitive of their output.

Onto a different subject, I think earlier a good point was made by Katie:

"if you give up on Christian music because you have no desire to hear or be challenged the message, that's one thing. But automatically dismissing bands as lesser musicians because they center around Christ is too much."

Here is a short list of artists that have at one point been slapped in some way with the "christian" tag, but have also been making legitimate artistic statements. In my opinion anyways.....

Daniel Amos
The Choir
Adam Again
The 77s
Lost Dogs
Fleming and John
Scattered Few
Spy Glass Blue
Dig Hay Zoose
Mortal
Fold Zan
Circle of Dust
L.S.U./Mike Knott/Aunt Bettys' Ford
The Violet Burning
The Lassie Foundation
Luxury
Starflyer 59
Pedro the Lion
Poor Old Lu
Dead Artist Syndrome
Damien Jurado
Fell Venus
Curious Fools
Chagall Guevera
Steve Taylor
The Throes
The Ocean Blue
The Innocence Mission
Over the Rhine
The Prayer Chain
Cush
The Billions
Honey
Kings X
Vigilantes of Love
Common Children
Sincerely Paul
Black and White World
Fine China
Kevin Clay/My Little Dog China
Love Coma
Sunny Day Real Estate
Hoi Polloi
Flick
The Autumns
16 Horsepower
Rose Blossom Punch
Danielson Famile

and yes...

Sixpence None the Richer
Jars of Clay

posted February 15, 2003 05:52 PM            

How many people think Todd Rundgren sucks because they only know Hello It's Me and I Saw The Light? How many think Nilsson only did self-pitying ballads? How many think Loundon Wainwright only did stupid novelty songs or think Los Lobos only remade Richie Valens songs or think Green Day is a folk band or think Peter Gabriel only made goofy songs or that Kate Bush's career was short-lived or that Was Not Was was a dance band or that Sinead O'Connor was a one-off Prince acolyte or think Foo Fighters only do light pop ditties or think frickin' Kid Rock is Skynyrd re-incarnated or think Midnight Oil were just an 80's band or think Puddle Of Mudd might actually have some substance or think Thomas Dolby, Robert Smith, Flaming Lips are just melodic jokesters all because AC radio beats the single to a bloody pulp and refuses to move on to anything else unitl it's chewed on the corpse for a couple of years.

When I listen to Sixpence, I skip the two big hits. I still have to program those at the station I work at. But, as overplayed as "Kiss Me" has become, that's no reason to toss out one of my favorite songs, which is "Easy To Ignore."

posted February 16, 2003 08:32 AM            

quote:

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That was the worst part I hated about going to church...the solemn, heads bowed, silent, sad, clique-ish, perfectly dressed in our Sunday best plasticity of church!

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well thats not all churches- in other churches you get to listen to crappy contemporary 'christian' music

posted February 17, 2003 12:19 AM            

hahahaha

------------------
Dave is for the children

posted February 18, 2003 03:51 AM            

quote:

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i am a christian but I have not heard much "christian" music worth listening to either...by this I mean the stuff you would find in a christian book store on bands that would come play at your church.

artists that are truly good musicians that just happen to be christian are fine and should be judged on their merits.

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That's the way I look at it. I'll give anyone a chance, but I'm not willing to overlook the fact that they suck just because they're a Christian.

quote:

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Those religious broadcasters must have plenty of $$$ to buy radio stations. At least in my neighborhood, they have gone beyond what ever open frequency there is below 92, and now are spreading all over the rest of the dial.

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This is complete crap and another reason why I think most organized religion is bad. These stations are supposedly 'non-profit' so they suck up the frequency space alloted for public use (and conveniently they like to be right next to, say, the npr or college station so they can degrade the heretics signal).

I wonder if the advantage in making "christian" music isn't as much about the possible tax benefits involved at the corporate level as it is the ability to prosthelytize.